A Look at New Zealand's Internet


Published By: Conrad Reyners   On: Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 10:00 AM
A Look at New Zealand's Internet

Big changes to New Zealand’s internet are currently underway.

There have only been one or two times when I’ve felt like taking to my computer with a sledgehammer. The second was when my digital purchase for Starcraft 2 backfired. The first was when I was sixteen and my internet connection died in the middle of Counter-Strike championship final... just as I was about to clutch. Since that frustrating day I’ve always had a strong interest in making sure my internet connection was top of the line and as safe as houses. But my problem is not unique; in fact in New Zealand it’s all too common. Many Kiwi gamers must daily lock horns with their internet service provider overlords.

It is no longer remarkable that gaming and the internet are like Mario and Luigi or Ratchet and Clank – totally inseparable. If we aren’t using it to battle each other, we are logging in to read about the industry’s latest developments. In today’s modern world of multiplayer gaming, digital distribution and ready access to information the internet is becoming more and more essential. Not just to gaming, but to well... everything.

Our generation didn’t bat an eyelid when France’s constitutional court ruled that access to the internet was a fundamental human right. In fact, most of us nodded our heads in docile agreement. The Finnish went one step further, it’s now a legal right for all Finns to have at least access to a 1MB broadband connection.

Now, I’m going to make a confession – I’m not most of us. I did bat an eyelid when heard this news; in fact I did more than that. I got out of my chair, stomped around the house and raged a little bit. I was mildly angry and very jealous. Finland has only got one million more people than New Zealand; it didn’t seem fair that they were getting great internet while we were missing out.

But my rage quickly turned to curiosity. I wanted to know exactly what was happening with New Zealand’s internet infrastructure. I wanted to know how its nuts and bolts worked and how it could perhaps be changed for the better. Politicians, business leaders, industry groups and consumers have all been clamouring for some serious investment, and progress is now just starting to be made. I resolved myself to finding out what these changes were, and if they were going to result in any noticeable improvements for gamers and the internet services we so desperately rely on.

When it comes to New Zealand’s internet we should probably start off by addressing the elephant in the room: Telecom. Easily New Zealand’s largest internet service provider, it owns and operates the vast majority of our internet network. Originally starting as a government owned division of the New Zealand Post Service; it was sold into private hands in 1990 for $4.25 billion – this sounds like a lot of cash, but it was actually a pretty small fee to pay for control of nearly every telephone connection in the country. Since 1996 it has been providing internet connections to New Zealand homes through its internet service provider, Xtra.

There’s a reason Telecom is the elephant, and there’s a reason its taking up most of the room. The company has a distinct advantage in New Zealand in two crucial ways. Firstly, it has a virtual monopoly on the actual wires and exchanges that our internet physically flows through. Secondly, it owns a fifty percent stake in Southern Cross Cables Limited, the company that owns the only physical cable that links New Zealand to the rest of the world. Basically, Telecom owns nearly all of New Zealand's internet highway, and it controls the border gates. Obviously, this kind of monopolistic dominance has got consumers' backs up, and Telecom has had the dubious honour of being the only company to win the ‘Roger Award’ given to the “Worst Transnational Corporation Operating in New Zealand” not once, but twice.

This market monopolisation did not go unnoticed, and things came to a head in 2006 when David Cunliffe – the then Labour Telecommunications Minister – pushed through the Telecommunications Amendment Bill, which forced Telecom to unbundle their local loop (the wires connecting people’s homes to their local exchanges). The law allowed competitors to rent space in Telecom’s exchanges, meaning customers could directly connect to the competitor’s network equipment, removing the need to deal with Telecom’s network at all.

The result of these technical changes is that competitors (like Orcon or Slingshot) now have much more control over the amount of bandwidth and the speed of the connection that they can provide. The Government’s law was a broadside attack on Telecom’s monopoly, and the hope was that it would result in more competition in the internet market. For disgruntled gamers like me, this meant lower prices and faster speeds.

But there’s a problem. Two, in fact. Firstly, copper wires are a pretty terrible way of transferring data. They are old, slow, and the longer they are the worse the connection will be. Unbundling the local loop didn’t really remove this problem. Secondly, Telecom may have been able to pull a fast one on their competition through their recently announced ‘Cabinetisation’ program.

Now, bear with me here – this might get a little bit technical. Telecom has just announced a $1.4 billion dollar investment in their network. The focus of the investment will be in the installation of cabinets – small boxes on every street that the local homes on that street will connect to. Currently all the homes in a suburb go to a central exchange, using lots of slow copper wire in the process. But after Telecom has finished its cabinetisation program, a smaller number of homes will be connected with copper to a larger number of cabinets – each of which that are connected to the local exchange by nice, speedy, fibre-optic cable.

Think of it this way; instead of everyone slowly commuting to Wellington on individual old, clogged roads, they are instead driving to a train station on every street, and from there, getting a bullet ride into the city. This sounds like great news, and for existing Telecom customers it is. There will be fewer traffic jams at the exchange, and there will be a speedier line to the outside world. But it’s very, very bad news for Telecom’s competitors.

Like everything these days, the problem is to do with cost. Currently, it is worthwhile for a small competitor to stick their network technology in one of Telecom’s local exchanges. With six hundred or so connections coming in, they can be pretty confident that the sixty or so spaces they are selling are all used. However, when Telecom switches to cabinets, there will only be a few high speed lines going into the exchange. Competitors will need to rent both space on those high speed lines, and space in each street’s cabinet. This is a classic economy of scale problem. Small competitors simply can’t afford to stick their own network technology in each cabinet when there might only be one or two homes on that street using their service. The harsh reality is that their customer base is physically spread too thinly to be economically viable. The result of this is less competition – meaning that Telecom’s monopoly might once again be back in force; and high prices, slow speeds and poor service along with it.

This is bad news for gamers. Its very bad news indeed. Less competition is going to mean it will be much harder to find an internet plan with cheaper rates, faster speeds and higher data caps. These are the very things that games are now requiring us to have. As anyone who has Steam or is always having to download PSN updates will know, big data allocations are becoming less of a luxury and more of a necessity if you want to get the most out of your gaming experience. Not to mention the data needed for gaming itself and the speed with which it needs to be transferred.

But there may be some light at the end of the network tunnel. The Government’s “Fibre to the Home” initiative is set to radically improve New Zealand’s internet access. The project is exactly what it sounds like: by 2020 the Government wants to have replaced all those old copper wires with nice, speedy, and always upgradeable fibre-optic cable, going right to your home. This is a pretty expensive project, and its not all happening at once. Sadly, us gamers are the last cab off the rank – with big businesses, retail areas and industry being the main priority. But the plan is going to reach us eventually. The actual task of laying down the fibre is going to be done by a new Government owned company called Crown Fibre Holdings in conjunction with internet companies who are currently bidding for a slice of the Crown Fibre pie. Progress is steady and June’s Budget included an extra $248 million dollars of taxpayer funds to kick start the process.

The introduction of Crown Fibre has already led to some notable developments; the most interesting being Telecom’s announcement that if it wins the contract, it will split into two companies. The first would be “Chorus2” a company which would physically build and maintain the new fibre network. The second would be Telecom’s retail and wholesale business, and would manage internet services. This separation raises its own challenges and the complex regulatory issues that it throws up are probably dealt with better in another article, but Telecom’s organisational separation does indicate that the elephant in the room is getting pretty serious about the Fibre to the Home prize. Steven Joyce, the Minister for Communications and Information Technology is gearing up to make a decision: "by October of this year I'm expecting to see Crown Fibre Holdings' recommendations on preferred investment partners. This should enable new fibre to start going into the ground around the end of the year."

A fibre optic internet cable to every home is an obvious plus for gamers. Hell, a fibre optic cable to every home is an obvious plus for everyone. But, gamers (and the Government) might need to take Telecom’s earnest displays of obedience with a grain of salt.

Clare Curran, the Labour Party’s spokesperson on ICT is critical of Telecom’s announcement suggesting that it could undermine competition for the Crown Fibre contract: "Telecom’s announcement today suggests that a parallel process has been underway for months which could undermine the tendering process. The $1.5 billion being invested in ultrafast broadband is public money and the public has the right to a transparent process on how it will be spent.” In addition to this, Curran has concerns about how Telecom might be able to influence the market if it once again has a hand in the construction of New Zealand’s new internet infrastructure: “Labour has serious concerns about the role an entrenched monopoly could play in slowing down the roll out of broadband in New Zealand and the effect on the goal of affordable and accessible broadband services for New Zealanders.” These are fighting words, and they highlight how seriously our politicians are treating the development of our series of tubes. And for good reason: you can’t have good, solid, economic development without the ability to properly communicate.

So where does all of this technical jargon, political commentary and monopolistic retail behaviour leave us? We can’t deny that as high-end consumers of internet services these new developments are not good news. They are. And we can’t ignore the fact that fibre networks or improvements to our local loops are not going to be beneficial. They will be. But what we as gamers can do, and what we need to do, is improve our understanding of the complex market which provides us with our online gaming goodness. What we want is pretty easy to discern: fast connections, lower pings, stable servers, high data caps (or no caps whatsoever) and above all else, cheap pricing. The difficulty comes in transferring these desires into competitive market realities. And in realising these desires we need to recognise that a role for politicians and the state is inevitable.

But that’s an inherently good thing. Gamers' votes are worth as much as Telecom's and there are substantially more of them. How we develop our internet is not just a debate for one or two big businesses; it is a debate for the computer-chair warrior and the Xbox-live champion. Its a conversation for the hardcore WoW raider and the FIFA-Soccer mum. And it is one that gamers desperately need to lead if we ever want to see instantaneous downloadable content or single digit pings.

And we do. We so desperately, desperately do.



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stevenz
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 1:20 PM Posted by stevenz
Good article. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.
 
 
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Mirkillion
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 1:27 PM Posted by Mirkillion
Nice article, good to read something more substantial on a gaming website.
 
 
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Chronopie
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 2:11 PM Posted by Chronopie
As a dedicated Steam user, this article is relevant to my interests. Good Job. /stilted phrasing

Moar Speed = Good.
Moar Bandwidth / Higher/No Cap = v.Good

Moar Internet Gaming = Pwnzorz!!1!! /internetz

But seriously, this is a much needed development, we lag [/pun] behind the rest of the world in technological developments. Keep us posted.
 
 
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Takuyafire
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 4:51 PM Posted by Takuyafire
To be honest I can handle the speeds on my cable connection at the moment...sure they don't really hit full potential but they work...for now at least.

What we desperately need is no data caps...We need things to take a step in the right direction, not an attempted leap by changing several things at once.

We need fibre to the US/ASIA if at all possible that has a large bandwidth.
We need fibre throughout NZ's main data centres that also has enough bandwidth to avoid inevitable choke that will appear in the future.
We need fibre to homes to give us some goddamn speed for once.
And we need data caps removed or VASTLY increased...it is so hard to explain to someone that you do actually use 20-30gbs a month on just standard stuff then the game downloads/patches on top kill your monthly bill.

imo they just need to take each one incrementally and competitors need to stop being so greedy, sure each business offering a service has a right to make a profit but they also need to remember that the profit is made from us - we have the power to change markets but we don't.

I'm looking forward to seeing how badly Telecon can stuff up next in either the internet or phone market.
 
 
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Generic
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 6:11 PM Posted by Generic
Good article, you should've touched on the obvious recent step in the wrong direction: the removal of Telecom's unlimited internet, Big Time. Hopefully Slingshot will step in to fill the gap, but we'll see.
 
 
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Generic
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 6:18 PM Posted by Generic
Heh, just logged onto steam for the first time today and five of my games automatically updated, totalling 500MB in updates. Not a problem now, since I have unlimited data allowance, but once Telecom pulls the plug on big time later this month I'll have to weigh the choice to update heavily.
 
 
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Donutta
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 6:37 PM Posted by Donutta
Even with the cabinets, the fact is that copper still has a limit of like 256kbps upstream (in practice, at least) and like 1mpbs downstream. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link. So yeah, while it'll be nice to have less people on your road, it's still got a 50kmph speed limit.

That's why the datacaps exist, because if you take them off then you have everyone trying to drive Hummers at 100kmph down a dirt track. Telecom couldn't even get it working with throttling and that's why Big Time went kaput. The only solution is to lay pure fiber.

But why would they when they can get us to pay for old product at premium prices? As you say, the costs of laying fiber are too great for small companies, and larger companies probably don't see the point in paying so much to lay it for small country. That's why it's so important that it's the government that lays the fiber. Unfortunately, they need to tender it out, so it's not as pure of an infrastructure as it could be.

It'd would be interesting if the 4G spectrum was used instead and fiber was just bypassed. Sure, it's for mobile broadband, but it still offers greatly superior speeds to copper and means that you don't need to mess about laying down lots of fiber. Unfortunately, despite the fact it was supposed to be freed up by 2013, it now looks like that's getting delayed as the government is too chickensh*t to turn it off as they're afraid they might anger voters who will have to upgrade their 20-year-old TV.

*sigh*

Great article, though. Nice to have such a condensed version of the issue. :)
 
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The Host of Chaos
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 7:36 PM Posted by The Host of Chaos
New Zealand's article is a joke. 9 years to get in line with the rest of the world is laughable, but at least things are happening.
 
 
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sakura3889
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 8:06 PM Posted by sakura3889
great article.

While it would be nice to have the best internet at the same time for some games I.E halo it would be nice to get host because of an awesome connection but it won't change international lines and the lag in some games, while it's good to see some good things may be coming our way!
 
 
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toadeny
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 11:42 PM Posted by toadeny
Nice article, good read and well researched. Can't say the same about some of the comments however :)
The distance from the exchange to your house is a factor in your connection speed and latency, a similar factor is also the distance to the end destination for your traffic: if you are accessing anything outside of nz you immediately loose again because of simply the high cost of offshore traffic and availability to the rest of the internets. Having fibre backed cabinets closer to you is an improvement to at least domestic traffic.
If you are willing to pay the money telecom will gladly lay fibre and you will get a fantastic service, take for example data centers...
It's also not as if we are going to lay new fibre nationwide, it's mostly the last leg of the journey from the exchange to your door ( as mentioned by someone else)
 
 
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Astarael
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2010 11:53 PM Posted by Astarael
Just ditched telecom for slingshot. Can anyone guess why?!
All together now!

BIG TIME PLAN!!

Whilst having to limit all of the downloading is a pain, I don't get wasted by lag in every game I play.

Hooray for competition against the mighty (annoying) Telecom!
 
 
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Donutta
On Thursday 19 Aug 2010 8:38 AM Posted by Donutta
"Having fibre backed cabinets closer to you is an improvement to at least domestic traffic."

Wow, domestic traffic? Name one site outside of this one that is hosted domestically that is worth visiting. (Don't say Stuff; I said worth visiting.)

The fact is that until we have FttP then the Internet is going to be slow. It doesn't matter if you are 6 inches from the exchange (although, yes, the distance obvious matters given the laws of physics) because you are still going to be limited by the copper lines. No matter how fast it's coming to the exchange on the fiber, it's always then going to be funneled out through a straw. Pings might get a little better, but I'm certainly not going to be downloading at 8mbps.

Another thing (more related to pings) not factored in this article was the issue of routing. Telecom are actually pretty good about it, but other ISPs have some pretty terrible routing, especially in the Asia region. It's affecting people who want to play Starcraft II, for example.
 
 
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Generic
On Thursday 19 Aug 2010 1:15 PM Posted by Generic
Donutta, I'd disagree with you about copper's downstream limitations being 1mbps, I regularly download at 600-800Kb/s, which is equivalent to 6-7mbps. Maybe 1mbps is the limit in your area, but it all depends on the distance to your exchange and the quality of your wiring.
 
 
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Donutta
On Thursday 19 Aug 2010 5:52 PM Posted by Donutta
19 August 2010, 01:15 PM Reply to Generic
Donutta, I'd disagree with you about copper's downstream limitations being 1mbps, I regularly download at 600-800Kb/s, which is equivalent to 6-7mbps. Maybe 1mbps is the limit in your area, but it all depends on the distance to your exchange and the quality of your wiring.
Wut?

The in-theory limit is 8Mbps, so I'm not saying you can't pull that in extremely ideal conditions, but there is no way 600kbps = 7MBps. Don't confuse kbps with kBps or kiBps. You're not even pulling 1Mbps. :(
 
 
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Donutta
On Thursday 19 Aug 2010 5:53 PM Posted by Donutta
19 August 2010, 01:15 PM Reply to Generic
Donutta, I'd disagree with you about copper's downstream limitations being 1mbps, I regularly download at 600-800Kb/s, which is equivalent to 6-7mbps. Maybe 1mbps is the limit in your area, but it all depends on the distance to your exchange and the quality of your wiring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_T1.413_Issue_2
 
 
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toadeny
On Thursday 19 Aug 2010 6:22 PM Posted by toadeny
I don't disagree with you, most sites people visit are offshore, nzgamer is hosted domestically, trademe too, which is maybe worth visiting... Upgrades to domestic traffic will make domestic streaming video amongst many other things more usable.

Roadside cabinets will ultimately be the point at which fibre will terminate to your door from, so this is a step in the right direction, no?

ADSL2+ tops out at 24/3.5Mbit/s. (AUS ISP offer 20/1Mbps ADSL2+) After that I believe there are trials in VDSL and that's a step up again. It is being done here in NZ on our existing copper (still in the testing phase?).

All that is however somewhat dwarfed because both our nationwide backhaul and our international back haul can't presently handle that volume of traffic. New or upgraded links out of NZ are a big pre-requisite to Fibre-To-The-Door.
 
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Generic
On Thursday 19 Aug 2010 8:21 PM Posted by Generic
Yeah, sorry, what I meant was I download at 600-800 kilobytes/second, which is equivalent to around 6-7 megabits.

The article you linked to states "The data frame rate (baud rate) is 4,000 frames per second, the maximum theoretical downstream data rate of an ADSL system is 15.24Mbit/s. However, because the data is split up into packets of 255bytes, the maximum achievable downstream data rate is 8.128Mbit/s" - it doesn't mention 1mbps being the downstream limit anywhere.
Maybe you misread it - it says the max theorhetical speed is 15mbps, and the max practical is 8mbps. 1.5mbps is mentioned as the practical limit *upstream*.

If you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_Digital_Subscriber_Line#ADSL_standards you'll see the same data there. I know that 10 years ago when I had a pci adsl modem, I used to connect at 7.6Mbps (that's not any indication of actual downoad speeds though). I think most people are using ADSL2+ these days, too, which should be even faster.
 
 
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Donutta
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 11:38 AM Posted by Donutta
19 August 2010, 08:21 PM Reply to Generic
Yeah, sorry, what I meant was I download at 600-800 kilobytes/second, which is equivalent to around 6-7 megabits.

The article you linked to states "The data frame rate (baud rate) is 4,000 frames per second, the maximum theoretical downstream data rate of an ADSL system is 15.24Mbit/s. However, because the data is split up into packets of 255bytes, the maximum achievable downstream data rate is 8.128Mbit/s" - it doesn't mention 1mbps being the downstream limit anywhere.
Maybe you misread it - it says the max theorhetical speed is 15mbps, and the max practical is 8mbps. 1.5mbps is mentioned as the practical limit *upstream*.

If you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_Digital_Subscriber_Line#ADSL_standards you'll see the same data there. I know that 10 years ago when I had a pci adsl modem, I used to connect at 7.6Mbps (that's not any indication of actual downoad speeds though). I think most people are using ADSL2+ these days, too, which should be even faster.
Yes, but you would have to be the ONLY person in your area using your line at that time.

At 3 in the morning on Tuesday, I get a natural ping of 184ms to the WoW servers in California. On Saturday evening, I get 500ms+. It's not the route that's changing, nor the lines, nor am I moving house. The difference is at 3 in the morning I'm probably the only one in my neighborhood awake and using the Internet. On Saturday evening, every Tom, d*ck, and Harry is.

Also, I'm curious to know how you judge what you are downloading in kilobytes p/s since the standard measurement for most (if not all?) apps is kilobits per second.
 
 
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Donutta
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 11:40 AM Posted by Donutta
19 August 2010, 08:21 PM Reply to Generic
Yeah, sorry, what I meant was I download at 600-800 kilobytes/second, which is equivalent to around 6-7 megabits.

The article you linked to states "The data frame rate (baud rate) is 4,000 frames per second, the maximum theoretical downstream data rate of an ADSL system is 15.24Mbit/s. However, because the data is split up into packets of 255bytes, the maximum achievable downstream data rate is 8.128Mbit/s" - it doesn't mention 1mbps being the downstream limit anywhere.
Maybe you misread it - it says the max theorhetical speed is 15mbps, and the max practical is 8mbps. 1.5mbps is mentioned as the practical limit *upstream*.

If you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_Digital_Subscriber_Line#ADSL_standards you'll see the same data there. I know that 10 years ago when I had a pci adsl modem, I used to connect at 7.6Mbps (that's not any indication of actual downoad speeds though). I think most people are using ADSL2+ these days, too, which should be even faster.
Oh, and I didn't misread it. I didn't even use the Wikipedia article. I'm majoring in network engineering so this is just the kind of stuff we get taught at uni. I was originally going to link to the lecture slides, but I don't think people would have access to see them.
 
 
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Generic
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 12:06 PM Posted by Generic
Maybe you should have a read of the article now then. It says, like I've been saying, that the practical limit of ADSL is not 1mpbs, as you said. If you can offer anything to back up your arguement here I'd be interested in reading it, because what you've linked so far only reinforces what I've been saying.

When you say that most applications measure download speed in kilobits, not kilobytes, you're wrong. I can understand how it's easy to get confused. Check out this screenshot I just took of me downloading something in firefox, with the wikipedia page for data rate units in the background:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/hummingbird42/download1.jpg

kB/s is kilobytes per second. kbit/s or kbps is kilobits. Look at any application you choose and you will see kB/s.

I think the problem here is just a misunderstanding on your part. Application download speeds are measured in kilobytes per second, not kilobits. 1mpbs is 128kB/s. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobytes_per_second#Conversion_formulae - do some reading and you'll see that what I'm saying is true.
 
 
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Donutta
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 12:23 PM Posted by Donutta
20 August 2010, 12:06 PM Reply to Generic
Maybe you should have a read of the article now then. It says, like I've been saying, that the practical limit of ADSL is not 1mpbs, as you said. If you can offer anything to back up your arguement here I'd be interested in reading it, because what you've linked so far only reinforces what I've been saying.

When you say that most applications measure download speed in kilobits, not kilobytes, you're wrong. I can understand how it's easy to get confused. Check out this screenshot I just took of me downloading something in firefox, with the wikipedia page for data rate units in the background:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/hummingbird42/download1.jpg

kB/s is kilobytes per second. kbit/s or kbps is kilobits. Look at any application you choose and you will see kB/s.

I think the problem here is just a misunderstanding on your part. Application download speeds are measured in kilobytes per second, not kilobits. 1mpbs is 128kB/s. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobytes_per_second#Conversion_formulae - do some reading and you'll see that what I'm saying is true.
"• Up to 1 Mbps upstream (today typically < 256 kbps)
• Up to 8 Mbps downstream (today typically < 1 Mbps)"

No offense, but I think my lecturer is more of an authority on the subject than you.
 
 
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Donutta
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 12:24 PM Posted by Donutta
20 August 2010, 12:23 PM Reply to Donutta
"• Up to 1 Mbps upstream (today typically < 256 kbps)
• Up to 8 Mbps downstream (today typically < 1 Mbps)"

No offense, but I think my lecturer is more of an authority on the subject than you.
http://ecs.victoria.ac.nz/twiki/pub/Courses/NWEN302_2010T2/LectureSchedule/Week01.pdf

If you can access it.
 
 
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Donutta
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 12:34 PM Posted by Donutta
You are right about the kilobytes thing, but I was under the impression you were talking about bandwidth apps and not actually just looking at your Firefox downloads.

As I said, in purely ideal conditions, on ADSL you might be able to pull 8Mbps download. You don't ever get purely ideal conditions.

It also means f**k all in the face of hosting a game either.
 
 
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Generic
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 12:52 PM Posted by Generic
Maybe it is typically less than 1Mbps, I don't know the statistics. I would be surprised if my internet was randomly much better than most people's though. My point is that 1mbps is not the practical limit, as you claimed. I've posted a screenshot of me downloading at much more than that (472 kB/s = 3.6875 mbps. Can you dispute that?). Yes it's unlikely you'll get 8mbps, but you're claiming 1mbps is the practical limit. It's not, by a long shot. I'd ask your lecturer about their basis for those figures if I were you.

You might question my credibility on the subject, but that's irrelevant since I'm backing up my arguement with actual facts. I did actually do two years of a computer science degree though, and got a financial scholarship for having the top marks in my year. I decided that I didn't want to be surrounded by people who have no life other than computer games for the rest of my life though. Not meaning that as an attack or anything, just explaining my reasons for leaving.

I'm not sure what bandwidth app(s) you use, but literally every one that I've used the past has both kB/s and kb/s as options for measurement.

No worries about the kilobyte/kilobit confusion though, it is sometimes hard to keep track :)
 
 
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Donutta
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 1:17 PM Posted by Donutta
"Maybe it is typically less than 1Mbps, I don't know the statistics. I would be surprised if my internet was randomly much better than most people's though. My point is that 1mbps is not the practical limit, as you claimed. I've posted a screenshot of me downloading at much more than that (472 kB/s = 3.6875 mbps. Can you dispute that?). Yes it's unlikely you'll get 8mbps, but you're claiming 1mbps is the practical limit. It's not, by a long shot. I'd ask your lecturer about their basis for those figures if I were you."

It depends on congestion. I live in the middle of Wellington, so naturally I get horrible congestion in peak hours. My parents live in the backwaters of New Plymouth, so even though their connection is "worse", the speeds are better because apparently retired farmers have no use for the Internet.

Also, "in practice" != practical limit. It means that when I run a speed test to servers in San Fransico, I should expect about 2Mbps tops, not 8Mbps.

"You might question my credibility on the subject, but that's irrelevant since I'm backing up my arguement with actual facts."

As have I. It's just that you dispute these facts. Let's use the road analogy again. The speed limit on Auckland's motorway is 100kpmh. At 3am, I might be able to do that easily. Probably can at 3pm. I'm not going to be driving that fast at 6pm.

"I did actually do two years of a computer science degree though, and got a financial scholarship for having the top marks in my year. I decided that I didn't want to be surrounded by people who have no life other than computer games for the rest of my life though. Not meaning that as an attack or anything, just explaining my reasons for leaving."

No offense, but it doesn't really mean anything. Back in 2003 I started a computer science degree and got two years into it and I couldn't tell you sh*t about computers. I'm still a novice that defaults to textbooks and lecture slides a lot. I'm not saying I > you. I'm saying my lecturer who has 15 years experience and developed the QoS for mobile communications is probably > you.

"I'm not sure what bandwidth app(s) you use, but literally every one that I've used the past has both kB/s and kb/s as options for measurement."

Speed Test has reverted to pure Mbps for a while now, and the two others I check with use pure kpbs.

The reason I use pure speed tests rather than data downloads is because the latter can vary so much. Where is the server? Does it have a bandwidth limit? Does it give priority?

Even then, it's not 100%. Why do I get 500ms ping on one computer and 190ms on another computer using a tunnel when both using the same connection? Is it the route? Is it use of a QoS packet scheduler? Is it simply voodoo?

My issue here isn't really what the limit of ADSL is, per se. It's that in practice, if everyone in this country is enjoying the freedom of no data caps and starts downloading torrents all day, the Internet is going to be like Auckland motorway 24/7. Even if cabinets act like a vomitarium and sh*t speeds up once it's out of the copper, it's still going to be slow for that leg of the journey. It might not affect anyone who just wants to download porn all day, but if you want to host a game of a P2P game, it's pretty ratsh*t.

"No worries about the kilobyte/kilobit confusion though, it is sometimes hard to keep track :)"

No kidding, especially with a byte actually being (usually) 8 bits. Stupid binary.
 
 
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Generic
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 2:25 PM Posted by Generic
I was never arguing that internet in NZ doesn't suck (although it sucks slightly less with Slingshot's plan that came out yesterday), or that individual connection performance doesn't vary depending on the time of day and the phase of the moon. Of course it does, in both counts.

I was really just saying that the downstream limit of downstream ADSL is much more than the 1mbps that you were claiming. I think we're agreed on this now, aren't we?
 
 
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Donutta
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 2:37 PM Posted by Donutta
20 August 2010, 02:25 PM Reply to Generic
I was never arguing that internet in NZ doesn't suck (although it sucks slightly less with Slingshot's plan that came out yesterday), or that individual connection performance doesn't vary depending on the time of day and the phase of the moon. Of course it does, in both counts.

I was really just saying that the downstream limit of downstream ADSL is much more than the 1mbps that you were claiming. I think we're agreed on this now, aren't we?
Well yes, but then again I looked and I hadn't put the 8Mpbs speed in my first post. So I mentioned the difference between "should" and "do" in regards to upstream, but then just stayed on "do" in regards to downstream. So I can see how you thought I was saying that the absolute limit was 1Mpbs.

As I said, what I was trying to say was that in practice, most people are gonna get like 1Mpbs and 256kbps u/d on ADSL and more likely 2Mpbs and ~300kpbs u/d on ADSL2+ when accessing a server that isn't hosted locally. Which is most of them.

On the plus side, it seems like at least Steam has a local server now.
 
 
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Vixremento
On Friday 20 Aug 2010 7:14 PM Posted by Vixremento
Good read! It's interesting to see how other countries are also struggling with bandwidth. Here in South Africa we're also stuck with some pretty old copper and only recently has our broadband supplier (the only one that provides fixed lines) started their rollout of a 10mbps service over ADSL 2 (provided you're not too far away from the exchange and all of the usual terms and conditions).

I guess some progress is better than no progress...but it would be nice if we had more competition here (or at least a choice of a fixed line provider!).
 
 
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ChatterboxZombie
On Sunday 22 Aug 2010 8:59 PM Posted by ChatterboxZombie
when i read crap like that it makes me wish i lived in south korea
but then y'know, i'd be in korea.
 
 
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GenBattle
On Monday 23 Aug 2010 1:23 PM Posted by GenBattle
I don't think you'll ever get single digit pings in games. Yes connections are getting faster, and the elimination of the remaining copper in the system will speed things up, but i think there's some barriers to NZ gamers ever having a decent connection.

Servers are getting further away. As our pings go down, servers move further away to a more "centralized" location. Best case scenario for XBL is a NZ server, but the reality is an Aussie server, or if you're really unlucky, a US server. Blizzard didn't really want to wrangle with Australian ISPs, so they just kept the Oceanic servers in the US. This probably won't get any worse, but the damage is done; we will never have single digit pings to servers in aus, let alone usa.

The flow-on effect of servers being in Aus or USA is increased distance. If we had excellent fiber pipes to other countries this wouldn't be a problem. But if you do a tracert to just about any website you'll find that the biggest jumps in latency are the international ones. Here at work we have a microwave/fiber link, so our connection is reasonably fast, but we still loose at least 20ms just jumping across the ditch, and far more jumping to the US (> 100ms).

IMO before we roll out "fibre to the home", we need to upgrade the upstream infrastructure (particularly our international links) to be able to handle this bandwidth. As it is this infrastructure is struggling under the weight of broadband. Caps aren't in place because your copper broadband connection is too slow, it is because of the bottlenecks and crush points further up the pipe.
 
 
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JMavz
On Tuesday 24 Aug 2010 12:56 PM Posted by JMavz
Telecom isn't meeting my gaming needs haha I hope this new method they are introducing works!

Nice job Conrad.
 
 
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Antmannz
On Saturday 28 Aug 2010 4:46 PM Posted by Antmannz
Faster internet is useless when you can blow your cap in a day.
 
 
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Imperator
On Monday 30 Aug 2010 3:13 PM Posted by Imperator
My American friends were geniunly surprised I only manage 750 kb/s. Although it's good enough, I can certainly see why they're surprised. I would love to expect a 5 mb/s connection...
 
 
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