PewDiePie, Racism, and the Gaming Community, Or: How I Learned Some People Believe Using the N-Word Is Okay

PewDiePie, Racism, and the Gaming Community, Or: How I Learned Some People Believe Using the N-Word Is Okay
 
 

I woke up on Monday morning, and per my usual routine, checked social media and Reddit for news around the world and within the gaming industry while having my morning coffee. Usually, Monday mornings in New Zealand are a dead-zone for gaming news, since the epicentre of the gaming industry – the United States – is a day behind, and usually no news posts on a Sunday there.

Not this week, because I saw what eventually became a hotbed of racism talks, and he-said, she-said arguments regarding one Felix “PewDiePie” Kjellberg’s comments on a livestream. I felt compelled to share my thoughts on him, the gaming community, and racism in today’s society.

For those who missed the news, on Sunday PewDiePie live streamed a match of PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds. At one point, while frustrated with another player he said:

"What a f***ing n*****! Geez! Oh my god! What the f***? Sorry, but what the f***? What a f***ing a**hole. (laughing) I don’t mean that in a bad way.”

There are many issues with what he said, and it doesn’t solely refer to the N- word itself. The main issue is the the context and manner he used it in. However, many have come out either defending him, or remain indifferent to what he said. The following are comments from people online that I’ve read:

“But it’s just a word, he didn’t mean anything by it.”

By calling someone that in a heated moment – to choose that word as the main vehicle to hurl an insult – it became a racist phrase in the worst possible way. The underlying emotion of hatred attached to the sentence makes it a racist remark. Furthermore, by following up with “a**hole” after realising his mistake, he equates it with a curse word. He knew exactly what direction he was going for when he said it, and the hateful undertone it sends.

“He apologised straight away”

Nope. Nope nope nope. You don’t throw in the word “sorry” after a racial slur, and then immediately follow it up with “what a f***ing a**hole.” The apology rings hollow. Ever since it occurred I have been pushing for him to issue a proper apology (which he eventually did), because the “sorry” he muttered wasn’t one. This is like someone tackling you to the ground, repeatedly punching you, and in the middle of a frenzy of punches muttering “my bad.”

“Everyone swears online, he said it like people say f**k”

Yes, a lot of people swear in frustration. Hell I do regularly, thanks to Competitive mode in Overwatch. I get angry, frustrated and downright pissed off, but I don’t drop racial slurs, and neither should anyone else. It shouldn’t been in your vernacular. Comparing the N- word to f**k or s**t isn’t a fair comparison, because these words do not demonize a group of people.

If you want to make a one-to-one comparison, compare the use of that word to ch*nk, in reference to Asians, or the R- word meant to insult the mentally disabled, or f****t to the LGBT community, or s**t or w***e towards women. These are the words that it should be compared to, since each of them are attacks on race, gender, sexuality, and people with impairments. None of them are okay to spew in a moment of anger, or otherwise.

As a minority, I had Asian slurs hurled at me since I was 8-years-old. They hurt the first time, the second time, and the hundredth time. Maybe by the time I hear it a hundred times, I don’t react, but that doesn’t mean I am indifferent to those words. Maybe you using those slurs to abuse someone doesn’t make you lose sleep at night, but think about how the recipient of the remarks will cope with that.

And regardless of who you are, whether you’re the internet’s biggest celebrity, or just playing videogames with others, your actions and words still speaks volumes about your virtues, or lack thereof. PewDiePie is one of YouTube’s biggest stars, and if we can hold him accountable for his words, maybe this can initiate change. And maybe it will trickle down to everyone, so they can understand what should and shouldn’t be said.

“He’s from Europe, they use the word differently in Europe.”

Don’t use geography to defend him. It’s not a proper rationale to defend the word, nor is there any rationale to defend racism. I was born in Asia and grew up here in New Zealand, and I know how offensive this word is, simply because I understand the context of it in US history. It’s 2017. it’s not hard for people to be acutely aware of history, as Google is a simple mouse click away.

“He probably blurted it out by accident, surely everyone has said something similar in private, he doesn’t mean offence”

Accident or not, he is a public figure with 57 million followers. Saying that on a stream “by accident” as one of the biggest internet figures is akin to walking into a town square and saying the exact same thing into a microphone. You can try and justify that it was an accident, but people will regard this as racist behaviour and a certain number of that group in the town square will take offence.

“Who cares, the media will move onto something else / You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.”

Not caring is just as bad as defending him. While we don’t have slavery, segregation, or apartheid, racism is still alive and well. When we don’t call people out on these egregious actions, it gives those who are inherently racist the ammo to continue to spew hate and vitriol. He needed to be called out, and he needed to take responsibility for it.

“People are faking outrage for internet points anyway, none of those who are upset will really do anything about it.”

While this is a fair point, I took that comment, marinated on it, and decided to do something about it. Not just writing this feature, but I also tracked down the contact details of the influencer company that manages PewDiePie. I decided to write an email, asking them to forward it to Felix; not just to express my disappointment, but so he could see the ramifications of what he said. I will post an update if I ever get a reply, but in the end, I did something about it.


I love videogames and the industry. I’ve been playing games longer than PewDiePie has been alive. The vitriol that gets spread around like a bad cold online has gotten progressively worse as the years go on, and this incident was my boiling point. Yes, it is awful that he is perceived as the head of the serpent, but we need to show that no one is bigger than racism, so maybe this controversy can help begin the process of repairing the damage that internet and gaming anonymity has caused. Because I don’t want to see the art form I love devolve into an online forum to spew hate and vitriol of any kind, without repercussions.

It’s disappointing that people unabashedly back him up, with no rhyme or reason, even to the point of admitting racism is okay, or that we should all be indifferent about it.

Do I think Felix is racist? No. Do I want – like others suggest – to see him drawn and quartered in public to set an example? God, no. Do I think he has a disdain for minority groups? Based on the words he blurted out, it’s possible. But that doesn’t mean we put him on trial at the Hague. Instead, we should use this as a teachable moment, not just for him, but for those online to know better.

Update:

This morning (Wednesday) I watched PewDiePie’s apology video, and after consideration, I do believe he means it. Unlike his previous “apology” regarding the Nazi/Fiverr controversy, he never once deflected it, or passed the blame on, or offered a half-baked excuse to justify why he said it. He took the backlash on the chin, accepted that he messed up, and vows to be better moving forward.

I find the apology satisfactory, but it’s still early days. He needs to be able to walk the talk, so it’ll be interesting to see how his content and his behaviour changes in the future. All I know is, as far as this incident goes, he has done the right thing. He can be the poster child of online indifference, or he can be the lightning rod that precipitates change.

I hope it’s the latter.




 

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Comments Comments (61)

 
Posted by BigC
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 3:22 PM
4
Good article and I agree with many of your points, but I do have a serious question here...
What does the N word mean and why is it ok for black people to say it to anyone of any race/people? You can't really compare it to the C word to insult Asian people, or the R word to insult the mentally disabled because they do not go around calling each other or any other race/people those words.
 
 
 
Posted by Xaphriel
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 3:23 PM
3
I still don't buy it. He's sorry he got called out, and he's sorry it impacted on his career, but I don't think he's inherently sorry for using the word. The only thing he's learned is how to give a more convincing apology.

We have here the opportunity to make a stand and say that no, we won't tolerate this sort of thing in gaming (or at all, preferably, but baby steps). Or we have the chance to make a bit of a fuss, then wander away when he hangs his head sheepishly and mumbles "sorry". I'm not saying burn him at the stake, but SOMETHING other than three days of controversy before forgetting would be cool.

Also, speaking as a European, we absolutely don't use the word differently, and are fully aware of what it means and represents. Didn't see anyone using that excuse but wow, what kind of horsesh*t is that?!
 
 
 
Posted by Dvst8u
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 4:19 PM
2
i know what you mean BigC. was thinking that myself. why can black people use it even in everyday situations (songs , social media , greeting each other etc? and its fine....i don't get it. not defending PDP at all but i just dont get it....
 
 
 
Posted by ThatUndeadLegacy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 4:24 PM
-
so i can still call people cucklord mcgee?

His Apology felt sincere to me.
 
 
 
Posted by ThatUndeadLegacy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 4:25 PM
-
14 September 2017, 03:22 PM Reply to BigC
Good article and I agree with many of your points, but I do have a serious question here...
What does the N word mean and why is it ok for black people to say it to anyone of any race/people? You can't really compare it to the C word to insult Asian people, or the R word to insult the mentally disabled because they do not go around calling each other or any other race/people those words.
and why is it okay for black people to call white people crackers?
 
 
 
Posted by ChieftaiNZ
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 4:53 PM
1
Do I think Felix is racist? No. Do I think he has a Disdain for minority groups? Maybe.

Well hold on a second. How can he have a disdain for minorities, but not be a racist? Racism is the belief that ones race is superior and that other races are inferior. Disdain is the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of their respect.

Thinking a minority is not worthy of their respect because they are black/asian/etc IS Racism.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:06 PM
2
14 September 2017, 03:22 PM Reply to BigC
Good article and I agree with many of your points, but I do have a serious question here...
What does the N word mean and why is it ok for black people to say it to anyone of any race/people? You can't really compare it to the C word to insult Asian people, or the R word to insult the mentally disabled because they do not go around calling each other or any other race/people those words.
You bring up an interesting point. From my research, it seems like African Americans are trying to "take back" that word by applying it as an affectionate term for a fellow black man/woman. However, PDP used it in a context that shows disdain, therefore making it racist.

While I feel like, yes, it does seem awkward - I honestly think no one use it period, and many notable African American figures feel the same - I'm wading into a territory that I'm reluctant to make an argument against.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:08 PM
1
14 September 2017, 03:23 PM Reply to Xaphriel
I still don't buy it. He's sorry he got called out, and he's sorry it impacted on his career, but I don't think he's inherently sorry for using the word. The only thing he's learned is how to give a more convincing apology.

We have here the opportunity to make a stand and say that no, we won't tolerate this sort of thing in gaming (or at all, preferably, but baby steps). Or we have the chance to make a bit of a fuss, then wander away when he hangs his head sheepishly and mumbles "sorry". I'm not saying burn him at the stake, but SOMETHING other than three days of controversy before forgetting would be cool.

Also, speaking as a European, we absolutely don't use the word differently, and are fully aware of what it means and represents. Didn't see anyone using that excuse but wow, what kind of horsesh*t is that?!
I wish I was kidding, but that was something I actually read from people defending him.... I have no words.
 
 
 
Posted by emetic
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:11 PM
-
Good writeup feature.

I hadn't really thought it through before this PDP incident, but my realisation that Sony and MS can hear all the voice chat and read text messages but they choose to tacitly condone the N-word was enlightening.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:15 PM
1
14 September 2017, 04:53 PM Reply to ChieftaiNZ
Do I think Felix is racist? No. Do I think he has a Disdain for minority groups? Maybe.

Well hold on a second. How can he have a disdain for minorities, but not be a racist? Racism is the belief that ones race is superior and that other races are inferior. Disdain is the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of their respect.

Thinking a minority is not worthy of their respect because they are black/asian/etc IS Racism.
To clarify: I don't think he hates people of colour, but for him to choose that word to use in the heat of the moment of anger, he unwittingly puts minorities down a level. Maybe that is racist, I just think it might be a fine line.

And I won't argue if people think he is racist, or continue to think that - everyone is entitled to their opinion, after all - but I guess I'm optimistic that his mindset will change. Not just for the of the word, but that he will see everyone for who they are, and not by the derogatory terms they fall under.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:17 PM
1
14 September 2017, 04:25 PM Reply to ThatUndeadLegacy
and why is it okay for black people to call white people crackers?
Perhaps because there's no slavery mentality associated with that word? Just a thought. Again, it shouldn't be a double standard, but don't use that as a comeback.
 
 
 
Posted by AsianFella
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:28 PM
-
14 September 2017, 04:53 PM Reply to ChieftaiNZ
Do I think Felix is racist? No. Do I think he has a Disdain for minority groups? Maybe.

Well hold on a second. How can he have a disdain for minorities, but not be a racist? Racism is the belief that ones race is superior and that other races are inferior. Disdain is the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of their respect.

Thinking a minority is not worthy of their respect because they are black/asian/etc IS Racism.
You don't have to be a minority to be on the receiving end of racism
 
 
 
Posted by drunk_monk
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:33 PM
1
Good read Tony.

I liked his apology too and it seemed very genuine. But we only know what is said and not whats in his heart so we won't know until we see if it's the same.
 
 
 
Posted by cortez72
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:36 PM
3
14 September 2017, 05:17 PM Reply to toner
Perhaps because there's no slavery mentality associated with that word? Just a thought. Again, it shouldn't be a double standard, but don't use that as a comeback.
It refers to the 'cracking of the slave masters whip', so it has a slavery link. ThatUndeadLegacy you can't say cracker in the US without repercussions, it doesn't sit well.
 
 
 
Posted by Paorio
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 5:44 PM
-
Just wondering, what is your reaction to people saying "wassup ma n*****"?
 
 
 
Posted by Paorio
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 6:08 PM
-
Just realised he's a subconscious racist
 
 
 
Posted by that_black_guy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 6:14 PM
-
I know a lesbian couple who constantly refer to each other/themselves as "homos". Is that along the same lines as a black american calling their mate an n word? And is it more acceptable than n bombs, in an informal enviroment?
 
 
 
Posted by ChieftaiNZ
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 6:32 PM
-
14 September 2017, 06:14 PM Reply to that_black_guy
I know a lesbian couple who constantly refer to each other/themselves as "homos". Is that along the same lines as a black american calling their mate an n word? And is it more acceptable than n bombs, in an informal enviroment?
I mean technically everyone is a Homo. A homosapien. Homo is short for homosexual, which they are, so is it really offensive? imo calling a homosexual a homo is the same as calling a Person of Colour black/brown. It's a matter of fact.

N****r, Queer, etc are all words that exist to be used a derogatory descriptive. (f*ggot/f*g is totally dependent on context, because you know, f*ggot is a bundle of sticks and f*g is a cigarette.)
 
 
 
Posted by that_black_guy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 6:45 PM
1
14 September 2017, 06:32 PM Reply to ChieftaiNZ
I mean technically everyone is a Homo. A homosapien. Homo is short for homosexual, which they are, so is it really offensive? imo calling a homosexual a homo is the same as calling a Person of Colour black/brown. It's a matter of fact.

N****r, Queer, etc are all words that exist to be used a derogatory descriptive. (f*ggot/f*g is totally dependent on context, because you know, f*ggot is a bundle of sticks and f*g is a cigarette.)
Yea, I get what you're saying. But I'm pretty sure we all know the word homo is often used as an insult... even though it technically isn't. I mean if we're being that literal about it, then if someone called me a dumb c*** then why should it bother me, because 1) I can speak and 2) I'm not a part of the womens anatomy. And if we go further down the path we're on, why get bothered with the n-bomb?
You and I or the person this guy was referring to aren't slaves... so why care, right?
 
 
 
Posted by Ron
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 6:58 PM
4
I hate when ppl call ppl fa***t online. Just çringe to hear young kids say it, I thought we'd moved on from calling each other gay as an insult and younger ppl are living in a far more accepting world. Oh humanity...
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 7:18 PM
2
14 September 2017, 05:44 PM Reply to Paorio
Just wondering, what is your reaction to people saying "wassup ma n*****"?
I cringe. I know it's terms of affection for whomever say it, but I don't feel too comfortable with it
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 7:18 PM
2
14 September 2017, 05:36 PM Reply to cortez72
It refers to the 'cracking of the slave masters whip', so it has a slavery link. ThatUndeadLegacy you can't say cracker in the US without repercussions, it doesn't sit well.
Well there you go, TIL.
 
 
 
Posted by Coddfish
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 7:38 PM
6
14 September 2017, 03:22 PM Reply to BigC
Good article and I agree with many of your points, but I do have a serious question here...
What does the N word mean and why is it ok for black people to say it to anyone of any race/people? You can't really compare it to the C word to insult Asian people, or the R word to insult the mentally disabled because they do not go around calling each other or any other race/people those words.
Nobody has special permission to say the N-word and nobody's banned from saying it; anyone can say what they want. But words have consequences and meaning, and that all depends on context. A white person saying the N-word has a very different context (and therefore meaning, and therefore consequences) than a black person saying it. There's a long and well-doc*mented history of white people using the word to oppress black people, so when a white person says it--even if they don't *intend it in a derogatory way--it carries those connotations.

Black people have a different relationship to the word because of the way it's been used against them for centuries, and for many, reclaiming it is a form of empowerment (same for gay people reclaiming "homo" and "queer"). But that's for black people to decide for themselves; a white person can't come along, say the N-word, then say they were using it "positively" and therefore a black person shouldn't be offended by it. It's a not a white person's place to try define a black person's relationship to that word.

Re: cracker, they're not even remotely comparable. One is a word that was used to dehumanise black people who were literally treated as property, and it continues to carry the ramifications of that. The other is a word that those dehumanised people used to refer to white folks who enslaved them. "Cracker" doesn't carry nearly the same history, weight, and power as the N-word.

If people are genuinely interested in understanding this more and not just trolling in the comments, there's huuuuge amounts of discussion and research around this from people far better equipped to talk about it. A quick google will bring you endless results. I'd also recommend the book "ni**er: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word" by Randall Kennedy; it's a good read that covers a lot of the history of the word and different perspectives on its modern usage.
 
 
 
Posted by ThatUndeadLegacy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 8:29 PM
-12
14 September 2017, 06:58 PM Reply to Ron
I hate when ppl call ppl fa***t online. Just çringe to hear young kids say it, I thought we'd moved on from calling each other gay as an insult and younger ppl are living in a far more accepting world. Oh humanity...
So i can't jokingly call my friend a f*ggot? that sounds like a boring world.
 
This comment has been down-voted by the community.  
 
Posted by Srassy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 8:44 PM
3
No, not doing this. I'm not Jesus Christ so I don't feel that I or the gaming community have to shoulder the sins of one person. Be responsible for your own actions and leave me alone.
 
 
 
Posted by Paorio
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 8:59 PM
-1
We all know racism is bad you don't need to harp on about it, I'm gonna be honest, I don't think any black people brought this topic up, I bet some random (not-black?) dude saw it and wanted to cash in on all the racism and chaos in the USA, three articles on this kind of proves my point...
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 9:26 PM
-
14 September 2017, 06:08 PM Reply to Paorio
Just realised he's a subconscious racist
Who are you referring to?
 
 
 
Posted by ChieftaiNZ
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 9:26 PM
1
14 September 2017, 08:44 PM Reply to Srassy
No, not doing this. I'm not Jesus Christ so I don't feel that I or the gaming community have to shoulder the sins of one person. Be responsible for your own actions and leave me alone.
Yeah. Why the f**k did we end up with 3 articles about Race issues on nz GAMER.

So some popular youtuber said a bad word while playing a game? Pewdiepie doesn't even upload video games regularly anymore.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 9:34 PM
2
14 September 2017, 08:59 PM Reply to Paorio
We all know racism is bad you don't need to harp on about it, I'm gonna be honest, I don't think any black people brought this topic up, I bet some random (not-black?) dude saw it and wanted to cash in on all the racism and chaos in the USA, three articles on this kind of proves my point...
Wow, where do I begin?

Racism IS bad, but based on everything that's been said before, during and quite possibly after what happened with PewDiePie, do we ALL know it.

You're right, I'm not black. I'm Asian, and having dealt with racism throughout the majority of my life (been told to "go back where you came from, you don't belong here" more times than I can count), I feel like it's appropriate for me to address racism in this day in age, especially in the gaming community that I love.

And regarding cashing in, you might want to check the three articles written about this. I didn't write about the other two news articles (that were reporting facts), but I wrote this on my own accord as I felt those who deflected his comments need to be addressed.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 9:37 PM
3
14 September 2017, 08:44 PM Reply to Srassy
No, not doing this. I'm not Jesus Christ so I don't feel that I or the gaming community have to shoulder the sins of one person. Be responsible for your own actions and leave me alone.
The point of what I wrote was not to blame the gaming community as a whole, more to point out that these behaviours exist. No one is pointing fingers directly at you.

I agree with you that people should be responsible for what they say and do, but that shouldn't mean that everyone should bury their heads in the sand if they see untoward behaviour. That's not too much to ask, right?
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 9:49 PM
4
14 September 2017, 09:26 PM Reply to ChieftaiNZ
Yeah. Why the f**k did we end up with 3 articles about Race issues on nz GAMER.

So some popular youtuber said a bad word while playing a game? Pewdiepie doesn't even upload video games regularly anymore.
Read my response above. Two articles were reporting news, this one is of my opinion as a minority who exists in the gaming community, that this kind of behaviour (and other toxic ones) need to be addressed, if we want to prevent gaming as a community and as an industry from being flooded with despicable people.

Unfortunately PewDiePie saying this whilst streaming a video game becomes news in the industry - I'm not rubbing my hands together, looking to jump on the holier-than-thou bandwagon. I took this opportunity to highlight this type of behaviour that exists in the gaming community, and wanted to bring attention to that.

If you don't behave like this, great, I'm glad there are decent people out there. This is to point out that this kind of behaviour exists, and it is more common than we think. My hope that this is the tipping point where things change online, not by one person or a small group, but by most/all who would not stand by this behaviour.
 
 
 
Posted by Srassy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 10:06 PM
-1
14 September 2017, 09:37 PM Reply to toner
The point of what I wrote was not to blame the gaming community as a whole, more to point out that these behaviours exist. No one is pointing fingers directly at you.

I agree with you that people should be responsible for what they say and do, but that shouldn't mean that everyone should bury their heads in the sand if they see untoward behaviour. That's not too much to ask, right?
You're saying the aim wasn't to blame the gaming community and yet your next reply to ChiefTail is that the gaming community as a whole needs to police themselves so we don't have despicable people in it. Does the movie community also need to police itself? What about the breathing community?

You're going to have to get used to the fact that gaming is so big that there are always going to be people who do stuff you don't like. I don't have the time to get outraged at all the media targets all day everyday and I feel no need to disavow someone I have no connection with.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 10:37 PM
3
14 September 2017, 10:06 PM Reply to Srassy
You're saying the aim wasn't to blame the gaming community and yet your next reply to ChiefTail is that the gaming community as a whole needs to police themselves so we don't have despicable people in it. Does the movie community also need to police itself? What about the breathing community?

You're going to have to get used to the fact that gaming is so big that there are always going to be people who do stuff you don't like. I don't have the time to get outraged at all the media targets all day everyday and I feel no need to disavow someone I have no connection with.
Addressing toxic behaviour is not asking the community to police themselves. Not exactly what you're implying with the movie and breathing(?) communities?

Yes there will always be people who do things I don't like, but that doesn't mean when someone margainalizes others based on their race/gender/sexual orientation/religion, we ignore that type of behaviour.

And for what it's worth, I'm not disavowing PewDiePie, I'm pointing out that what he said isn't okay, and furthermore, those who are blindly defending him with the excuses I listed, isn't okay either.
 
 
 
Posted by ThatUndeadLegacy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 11:01 PM
-
14 September 2017, 08:59 PM Reply to Paorio
We all know racism is bad you don't need to harp on about it, I'm gonna be honest, I don't think any black people brought this topic up, I bet some random (not-black?) dude saw it and wanted to cash in on all the racism and chaos in the USA, three articles on this kind of proves my point...
Yeah it was mostly white people complaining about it, lol
 
 
 
Posted by ThatUndeadLegacy
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 11:04 PM
-1
14 September 2017, 10:37 PM Reply to toner
Addressing toxic behaviour is not asking the community to police themselves. Not exactly what you're implying with the movie and breathing(?) communities?

Yes there will always be people who do things I don't like, but that doesn't mean when someone margainalizes others based on their race/gender/sexual orientation/religion, we ignore that type of behaviour.

And for what it's worth, I'm not disavowing PewDiePie, I'm pointing out that what he said isn't okay, and furthermore, those who are blindly defending him with the excuses I listed, isn't okay either.
Well we can't fight everything everyone always does wrong, gotta focus on the worst things first.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Thursday 14 Sep 2017 11:16 PM
1
14 September 2017, 11:04 PM Reply to ThatUndeadLegacy
Well we can't fight everything everyone always does wrong, gotta focus on the worst things first.
Which is what I'm trying to do
 
 
 
Posted by Mattress
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 9:45 AM
4
Fantastic write-up. Really enjoyed this thoughtful opinion that I completely agree with. Thanks for taking the time to share!
 
 
 
Posted by drunk_monk
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 10:27 AM
4
14 September 2017, 08:29 PM Reply to ThatUndeadLegacy
So i can't jokingly call my friend a f*ggot? that sounds like a boring world.
How is that a boring world? Do you call him a side plate? Or a peach? Or a retaining wall?

I'm sure there is a vast list of things you don't call your friend. Add this to that list. If you need to add something to your list of names, add retaining wall.

If the only way the world is interesting to you is to use terms that offend other People, then I recommend seeking help.
 
 
 
Posted by Srassy
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 10:35 AM
-1
14 September 2017, 09:49 PM Reply to toner
Read my response above. Two articles were reporting news, this one is of my opinion as a minority who exists in the gaming community, that this kind of behaviour (and other toxic ones) need to be addressed, if we want to prevent gaming as a community and as an industry from being flooded with despicable people.

Unfortunately PewDiePie saying this whilst streaming a video game becomes news in the industry - I'm not rubbing my hands together, looking to jump on the holier-than-thou bandwagon. I took this opportunity to highlight this type of behaviour that exists in the gaming community, and wanted to bring attention to that.

If you don't behave like this, great, I'm glad there are decent people out there. This is to point out that this kind of behaviour exists, and it is more common than we think. My hope that this is the tipping point where things change online, not by one person or a small group, but by most/all who would not stand by this behaviour.
I mean, of course this stuff exists in the 'community'. It has 100 million people in it. Hence my previous points about whether you want to start policing the movie or breathing communities. They're similarly large and full of people doing terrible stuff too. And yes, people are going to assume you're blaming the gaming community as a whole if you title the article 'racism and the gaming community'.

Sorry, but this mob justice combined with the internet is unhealthy. I'm not having people imply I'm racist or uncaring when I don't come out with the sharpened pitchforks and the flaming torches.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 11:51 AM
2
15 September 2017, 10:35 AM Reply to Srassy
I mean, of course this stuff exists in the 'community'. It has 100 million people in it. Hence my previous points about whether you want to start policing the movie or breathing communities. They're similarly large and full of people doing terrible stuff too. And yes, people are going to assume you're blaming the gaming community as a whole if you title the article 'racism and the gaming community'.

Sorry, but this mob justice combined with the internet is unhealthy. I'm not having people imply I'm racist or uncaring when I don't come out with the sharpened pitchforks and the flaming torches.
If you continue to read the headline after the word 'community', you'll find a series of text that say "aka how I learned SOME People Believe Using the N-Word Is Okay", keyword being SOME.

The gaming community in general is great, but when instances like this happen, those with horrible mindsets come out of the woodwork.

I'm not suggesting mob justice, but to point out to people that that kind of behaviour isn't okay.

Not asking you to raise pitchforks, but more of a "see something, say something" mentality. Point out those who margainlize others and tell them "that's not cool", instead of your perception that I'm telling others to burn them at the stake.

If everyone ignores this behaviour, it just means it will devolve into the Wild West - go look up Club Penguin as an example of a situation where no one cared.
 
 
 
Posted by Locky
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 12:01 PM
4
Honestly, my biggest problem with this is when he realized what he had said, he then changed his description of the player he was shooting at from the "N-word" to "what an A-hole", essentially defining those things to be one in the same
 
 
 
Posted by guido
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 12:06 PM
5
Oh wow. We get two relevant articles that are reporting actual news from the gaming industry about someone streaming a video game and a business that makes video games. Two out of hundreds of articles on this site. Two that address an issue that clearly exists within the gaming sphere as evidenced within the articles themselves and in the comments that followed.

Then someone who has dealt with racism all their lives, who loves video games (and who can't just leave the comment threads and forget this problem exists) writes an essay calmly and carefully stepping through many of the concerns that have arisen over the last few days and then enters the comments and patiently replies again and again to the same old tired arguments and people lose their sh*t claiming this issue is not relevant to gaming or to this website etc etc but in doing so they prove that this absolutely is relevant and very clearly requires further discussion. A discussion that many have only been prompted to have because of the two news articles that NZG and others have published. And I wonder what number of articles is acceptable? Because there's really not many options that are less than two but not zero? And zero sounds like suppression to me.

Coddfish, your comment! <3 Knowledge and understanding always provide a path forward and we live in a time where we have unprecedented access to knowledge. There's no excuse for not being informed. And it only takes a little effort to make things a lot better for everyone!
 
 
 
Posted by drunk_monk
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 12:14 PM
1
15 September 2017, 10:35 AM Reply to Srassy
I mean, of course this stuff exists in the 'community'. It has 100 million people in it. Hence my previous points about whether you want to start policing the movie or breathing communities. They're similarly large and full of people doing terrible stuff too. And yes, people are going to assume you're blaming the gaming community as a whole if you title the article 'racism and the gaming community'.

Sorry, but this mob justice combined with the internet is unhealthy. I'm not having people imply I'm racist or uncaring when I don't come out with the sharpened pitchforks and the flaming torches.
To give my take on this, you are nitpicking if you take that headline as an attack on everyone.

If an article said cancer and people, I wouldn't accuse the writer of suggesting all people have cancer. So to take the title, ignore the second portion, and assume that the writer is saying the gaming community is racist is a stretch. Just reading the whole title indicates he doesn't mean all but some of the shocking things he read int he community. And that's if you only read half the title, there's also a whole article to make that clear.

Unless your views lien up to one of the one addressed in the article it is clearly not pointed at you. If your views do then that's a different discussion to the one you're having.
 
 
 
Posted by Mattress
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 12:14 PM
-
15 September 2017, 10:35 AM Reply to Srassy
I mean, of course this stuff exists in the 'community'. It has 100 million people in it. Hence my previous points about whether you want to start policing the movie or breathing communities. They're similarly large and full of people doing terrible stuff too. And yes, people are going to assume you're blaming the gaming community as a whole if you title the article 'racism and the gaming community'.

Sorry, but this mob justice combined with the internet is unhealthy. I'm not having people imply I'm racist or uncaring when I don't come out with the sharpened pitchforks and the flaming torches.
No one is saying you are racist or uncaring by virtue of doing nothing. However, by virtue of doing nothing you are helping to perpetuate the status quo whether you like it or not - that being, as you point out, there are a portion of people out there with terrible views/beliefs and by remaining silent you allow those actions to go unabated. The only way to slowly change behaviour is to stand up as a community and say "that was unacceptable". I know reading this article has helped me to reflect on my own behaviour and I will certainly be more mindful of the things I say and do.
 
 
 
Posted by drunk_monk
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 12:46 PM
2
15 September 2017, 12:14 PM Reply to Mattress
No one is saying you are racist or uncaring by virtue of doing nothing. However, by virtue of doing nothing you are helping to perpetuate the status quo whether you like it or not - that being, as you point out, there are a portion of people out there with terrible views/beliefs and by remaining silent you allow those actions to go unabated. The only way to slowly change behaviour is to stand up as a community and say "that was unacceptable". I know reading this article has helped me to reflect on my own behaviour and I will certainly be more mindful of the things I say and do.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Because someone wants to ignore an issue they are NOT contributing to the issue allowing to exist.

If someone thinks something is bad, but chooses to ignore it, not feed the flame with oxygen, etc. That's a valid view, and also to some people that's the best way to let something die.

That's certainly not what I took from the article. I took the article to criticize people who criticize the criticism of the negative action.
i.e. People saying it is bad to say "what happened is bad" is the issue.
Not the people who sit back and say I'm not touching that with a 6 foot pole. If people don't want to deal with the vitriol these discussions can bring I don't blame them for one second. And if they step away, and ignore it, and their only impact is to influence their close friends, and kids, then they are not part of the problem.

People who only want to put positive energy into the world ARE part of the solution.
 
 
 
Posted by Mattress
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 1:01 PM
1
15 September 2017, 12:46 PM Reply to drunk_monk
I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Because someone wants to ignore an issue they are NOT contributing to the issue allowing to exist.

If someone thinks something is bad, but chooses to ignore it, not feed the flame with oxygen, etc. That's a valid view, and also to some people that's the best way to let something die.

That's certainly not what I took from the article. I took the article to criticize people who criticize the criticism of the negative action.
i.e. People saying it is bad to say "what happened is bad" is the issue.
Not the people who sit back and say I'm not touching that with a 6 foot pole. If people don't want to deal with the vitriol these discussions can bring I don't blame them for one second. And if they step away, and ignore it, and their only impact is to influence their close friends, and kids, then they are not part of the problem.

People who only want to put positive energy into the world ARE part of the solution.
Agree to disagree :) If the status quo is bad and you do nothing to challenge the status quo, then you are complicit in the bad whether you like it or not. And in this instance, all that "challenge" requires is an acknowledgement that what PewDiePie said was completely unacceptable (which Srassy has already acknowledged) to discourage other people from thinking/saying those things.
 
 
 
Posted by AdamC
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 1:20 PM
2
15 September 2017, 01:01 PM Reply to Mattress
Agree to disagree :) If the status quo is bad and you do nothing to challenge the status quo, then you are complicit in the bad whether you like it or not. And in this instance, all that "challenge" requires is an acknowledgement that what PewDiePie said was completely unacceptable (which Srassy has already acknowledged) to discourage other people from thinking/saying those things.
It depends on what is meant by "ignore".
If 57m subscribers ignore it and keep watching him, that's in support of it. But if they ignore it and unsub and just ignore him, then that sends a message.
 
 
 
Posted by drunk_monk
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 1:33 PM
1
15 September 2017, 01:01 PM Reply to Mattress
Agree to disagree :) If the status quo is bad and you do nothing to challenge the status quo, then you are complicit in the bad whether you like it or not. And in this instance, all that "challenge" requires is an acknowledgement that what PewDiePie said was completely unacceptable (which Srassy has already acknowledged) to discourage other people from thinking/saying those things.
By the same logic they are complicit in the positivity as they aren't criticizing that too and therefore are part of the solution.
 
 
 
Posted by Mattress
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 1:43 PM
1
15 September 2017, 01:33 PM Reply to drunk_monk
By the same logic they are complicit in the positivity as they aren't criticizing that too and therefore are part of the solution.
This is true but getting very philosophical. Easier IMO in this instance to simply recognise that it is not difficult or taxing to publicly acknowledge that what Pewdiepie said was unacceptable and that the comments listed in this article are logically flawed.
 
 
 
Posted by Paorio
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 2:35 PM
-
14 September 2017, 09:34 PM Reply to toner
Wow, where do I begin?

Racism IS bad, but based on everything that's been said before, during and quite possibly after what happened with PewDiePie, do we ALL know it.

You're right, I'm not black. I'm Asian, and having dealt with racism throughout the majority of my life (been told to "go back where you came from, you don't belong here" more times than I can count), I feel like it's appropriate for me to address racism in this day in age, especially in the gaming community that I love.

And regarding cashing in, you might want to check the three articles written about this. I didn't write about the other two news articles (that were reporting facts), but I wrote this on my own accord as I felt those who deflected his comments need to be addressed.
Sorry for making it sound like I was attacking you, I was just trying to bring up the case that most black racism articles aren't brought up by black people, I don't believe nzgamer were the ones to bring the whole situation up, you were just doing your job relaying info in a more relate-able fashion,

I do believe this situation is a joke and being blown way out of proportion. But I'd also like to apologise for offending you in anyway, I'm not the best at expressing my views and a lot of the time it comes out wrong. Sorry.

(Also in the subconscious racist comment I was referring to pdp)
 
 
 
Posted by drunk_monk
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 2:50 PM
2
15 September 2017, 01:43 PM Reply to Mattress
This is true but getting very philosophical. Easier IMO in this instance to simply recognise that it is not difficult or taxing to publicly acknowledge that what Pewdiepie said was unacceptable and that the comments listed in this article are logically flawed.
The comments in the article that Tony addresses are all part of the problem.

I just want it to be really clear that addressing allies or supporters who aren't vocal about it as part of the problem is inherently wrong.
Anyone who chooses to not use derogatory terms, especially round race, gender or sexuality aren't just part of the solution, they are the solution. That's not to say articles like this don't also help.

Tony wonderfully articulating the issues he sees as someone who has been at the other end of this stick will hopefully help reinforce these points to people in the middle or on the other side.

I just really hate labeling people not being vocally against something as supporting that thing. If you are vocally saying it doesn't matter, that's different but if you are only putting positive energy into the world, you shouldn't be criticized for that IMO.
 
 
 
Posted by Mattress
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 3:22 PM
-
15 September 2017, 02:50 PM Reply to drunk_monk
The comments in the article that Tony addresses are all part of the problem.

I just want it to be really clear that addressing allies or supporters who aren't vocal about it as part of the problem is inherently wrong.
Anyone who chooses to not use derogatory terms, especially round race, gender or sexuality aren't just part of the solution, they are the solution. That's not to say articles like this don't also help.

Tony wonderfully articulating the issues he sees as someone who has been at the other end of this stick will hopefully help reinforce these points to people in the middle or on the other side.

I just really hate labeling people not being vocally against something as supporting that thing. If you are vocally saying it doesn't matter, that's different but if you are only putting positive energy into the world, you shouldn't be criticized for that IMO.
Fair enough. And you've somewhat convinced me. I guess it requires diving in to discover why a person doesn't want to become more involved - because as you rightly point out, people who don't use racist language are the solution.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 4:28 PM
2
15 September 2017, 02:35 PM Reply to Paorio
Sorry for making it sound like I was attacking you, I was just trying to bring up the case that most black racism articles aren't brought up by black people, I don't believe nzgamer were the ones to bring the whole situation up, you were just doing your job relaying info in a more relate-able fashion,

I do believe this situation is a joke and being blown way out of proportion. But I'd also like to apologise for offending you in anyway, I'm not the best at expressing my views and a lot of the time it comes out wrong. Sorry.

(Also in the subconscious racist comment I was referring to pdp)
You didn't offend me, but thank you. Not directing at you, if we can all behave a bit mature online like we have with this discussion, then I wouldn't have had the need to write this article. Words are hard, you know :)
 
 
 
Posted by ChieftaiNZ
On Friday 15 Sep 2017 5:02 PM
3
15 September 2017, 04:28 PM Reply to toner
You didn't offend me, but thank you. Not directing at you, if we can all behave a bit mature online like we have with this discussion, then I wouldn't have had the need to write this article. Words are hard, you know :)
Yeah. Its absolutely a touchy subject and thats what I love about NZGamer. It's not a cesspool of opinions and hate but somewhere actually decisions can thrive.

I like this article more than the others on the incident as it comes from the mind of someone who has experience racism and actually shows the effect the word/s have, because as a white person, I'm probably never going to know what the feels like or understand the effect those words have on someone.
 
 
 
Posted by Paorio
On Saturday 16 Sep 2017 12:29 AM
1
15 September 2017, 05:02 PM Reply to ChieftaiNZ
Yeah. Its absolutely a touchy subject and thats what I love about NZGamer. It's not a cesspool of opinions and hate but somewhere actually decisions can thrive.

I like this article more than the others on the incident as it comes from the mind of someone who has experience racism and actually shows the effect the word/s have, because as a white person, I'm probably never going to know what the feels like or understand the effect those words have on someone.
Yeah it's a pretty unique thing on the internet
 
 
 
Posted by ThatUndeadLegacy
On Saturday 16 Sep 2017 12:39 AM
-
15 September 2017, 10:27 AM Reply to drunk_monk
How is that a boring world? Do you call him a side plate? Or a peach? Or a retaining wall?

I'm sure there is a vast list of things you don't call your friend. Add this to that list. If you need to add something to your list of names, add retaining wall.

If the only way the world is interesting to you is to use terms that offend other People, then I recommend seeking help.
things to call my friends, retaining walls, perfect.
 
 
 
Posted by drunk_monk
On Saturday 16 Sep 2017 7:52 AM
2
16 September 2017, 12:39 AM Reply to ThatUndeadLegacy
things to call my friends, retaining walls, perfect.
Glad to have been of assistance.
 
 
 
Posted by jmduknz
On Saturday 16 Sep 2017 11:55 AM
1
Nice article, explains your thoughts and reasoning well. He is a public figure who made a statement in the public domain. He should be leading the conversation about race and diversity and what he said is just not ok.
 
 
 
Posted by toner
On Saturday 16 Sep 2017 3:35 PM
1
14 September 2017, 08:29 PM Reply to ThatUndeadLegacy
So i can't jokingly call my friend a f*ggot? that sounds like a boring world.
Look, whatever you say between you and your friends is none of my business, but don't forget that the internet is a public space now, sometimes what you say may not just be between you.
 
 
 
Posted by skaddellis
On Sunday 17 Sep 2017 8:16 PM
-
14 September 2017, 03:22 PM Reply to BigC
Good article and I agree with many of your points, but I do have a serious question here...
What does the N word mean and why is it ok for black people to say it to anyone of any race/people? You can't really compare it to the C word to insult Asian people, or the R word to insult the mentally disabled because they do not go around calling each other or any other race/people those words.
So true, and well said..
 
 
 
Posted by ThatUndeadLegacy
On Wednesday 20 Sep 2017 5:28 PM
-
Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlB7h0gZ7x0&ab_channel=appabend